Boris Becker - criminal charges

cya · Strong Club Player

Boris Becker - criminal charges

Armchair · County player

I think if he'd shown any remorse or understanding that his behaviour was immoral and illegal the judge would have been more willing to go for some kind of non-custodial outcome.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Mike Dickson reporting that he has been given a 2 1/2 year sentence, of which he is likely to serve half.
yep, 2 1/2 years. Serving half is standard and then you come out on licence for the residual of the sentence.
Personally, I think it is heavy - I am not in favour of prison sentences for non violent crimes or crimes like drugs offences, or where the person is clearly no danger but I know most others here will be against me on that so wont argue it.
Becker is effectively ruined. He wont be able to travel to the USA for example again, or Australia. It is hard to see sponsors or media ever taking him on again; given that he is no threat, he may be able to coach people ( I dont think he should be excluded from that , others may disagree);
It is a massive fall from grace - I was a massive fan of Boris - I reckon when we look at the GOAT style analysis Jeff Sackmann is doing, we would see Boris up in the top 40 or 50 all time tennis players. I know he had faults as a commentator but I actually quite liked him.
Again, I know others will disagree with me completely and I wont argue with it, we all have opinions.
A sad day for him and his family and for tennis, IMO

Needless to say I don't agree.

White collar crime is, in many ways, more damaging to society, by people who - often - have had every advantage and who- very often - get off very lightly on exactly those arguments.

The people who shouldn't go to jail are the poor kids who've basically never had a chance - no matter that they've been violent. They deserve your sympathy and consideration.

Becker has continually lied, stolen, denied everything, used every scheme and ruse he could to try and avoid liability, the recommended sentence is 4 years. I'd have been happy with that.

indiana · Tennis legend

Pretty much that, CD. Saves me trying to find my own further words re calculated white collar criminality on that scale.

The possible alternatives I read of , however they might help others, IMO lack the appropriate punishment.

Elegant Point · Satellite level

My husband came in and said Boris has gone to jail - for a moment I thought he meant BoJo

The taxpayer will have to fund Boriss stretch in jail - it would be cheaper to tag him, impose a strict curfew and travel restrictions and make him do some kind of social work as others have suggeste.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/563326/costs-per-place-cost-per-prisoner-2015-16.pdf

Armchair · County player

Yup a very appropriate summation CD.

Christine · Intermediate Club Player

Elegant Point wrote:

My husband came in and said Boris has gone to jail - for a moment I thought he meant BoJo
The taxpayer will have to fund Boriss stretch in jail - it would be cheaper to tag him, impose a strict curfew and travel restrictions and make him do some kind of social work as others have suggeste.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/563326/costs-per-place-cost-per-prisoner-2015-16.pdf

I think a lot of people don't realise the financial implications to the tax payer of keeping people in jail, and then the majority go on to re offend rather than be rehabilitated

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

It costs about £35k a year, I believe, Christine. From the last figures I was working on.
I know that it's a very expensive and not necessarily effective option. I agree.
But the question here, as I saw it, was not whether jail is the proper solution overall but whether, given we use jail, should Boris he spared more than some violent youth from a disadvantaged background

christ · Futures level

Elegant Point wrote:
The taxpayer will have to fund Boriss stretch in jail - it would be cheaper to tag him, impose a strict curfew and travel restrictions and make him do some kind of social work as others have suggested

Doubtless true, but he should be seen to be punished like one of the great unwashed would be, not apparently let off with a seemingly cushy number because he is (rich and?) famous.

indiana · Tennis legend

I wonder if anyone has been any research on what category of people are most affected and / or turn around their ways with a custodial sentence. Say a privileged white collar financial swindler vs a disadvantaged violent offender?

christ · Futures level

indiana wrote:
I wonder if anyone has been any research on what category of people are most affected and / or turn around their ways with a custodial sentence. Say a privileged white collar financial swindler vs a disadvantaged violent offender?

Almost certainly. But I don't know what the research showed, if there was any.

Anecdotally I would suggest that the average privileged white collar financial swindler doesn't consider themselves a criminal at all, just unlucky to get caught by an unfair law.

Elegant Point · Satellite level

christ wrote:
indiana wrote:
I wonder if anyone has been any research on what category of people are most affected and / or turn around their ways with a custodial sentence. Say a privileged white collar financial swindler vs a disadvantaged violent offender?
Almost certainly. But I don't know what the research showed, if there was any.
Anecdotally I would suggest that the average privileged white collar financial swindler doesn't consider themselves a criminal at all, just unlucky to get caught by an unfair law.

sounds like a PhD thesis and I did a quick key word search, I couldnt find anything answering your exact question, the following was interesting

There is a distinct difference in the way that white-collar crimes and violent crimes are dealt with by our society, and by our criminal justice system. This thesis studies how the disparity in sentencing affects recidivism, deterrence, and the overall cost to society. Statistics reveal that white collar criminals receive significantly shorter, and less severe sentences for their crimes, than violent criminals do. Survey data show that while some people understand the problem white-collar crime poses to society, in general the public is not well informed. Public perception may be perpetuating the problem, contributing to the lax response to white collar crime. Recidivism is high in white collar criminals due to lenience in sentencing and punishment of white-collar criminals. Deterrence theory supports this conclusion, in that the lack of certainty, severity and swiftness of punishment for white collar criminals, is leading to higher recidivism rates.

Keywords: white collar crimes, recidivism, deterrence, violent crimes

https://medcraveonline.com/FRCIJ/white-collar-crime-recidivism-deterrence-and-social-impact.html

-- Edited by Elegant Point on Friday 29th of April 2022 07:47:43 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I could engage but havent the energy to debate but clearly will disagree with Indy and CD.

Ive said before here, I know two people who got sentenced for financial crimes, no point in going into the details, I dont want them to be identified. One got a suspended sentence , 12 months, the other got 12 months inside. Both had young families. The one with the suspended sentence was mortified, clearly, ashamed. Did 300 hours community service where they identified he could do more than dig holes; he worked with a charity to help them access funds and build a business plan. His employer fired him but another saw he was remorseful and he got a job. He repaid all the money , kept his house and protected his family. He still supports the charity 12 years later working a day a week at no cost, on a Saturday and doing things in the evening. Hes learnt a massive lesson, but put something back in and rebuilt his life.

The other went to prison, lost his house and marriage. He couldnt re pay the money as he didnt have a job. Couldnt get a job after either as no one would touch him. Life fell apart really and he now works at a supermarket and suffers severe depression and anxiety.

Punishment is fine if that is the society we are but I tend to favour trying to get the positive out of someone.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

And also remember the punishment doesnt stop when one gets out of prison. It continues. You cant access certain types of work, insurance is nigh on impossible, travel to certain countries impossible for life - now, that all goes for all people who commit crimes but dont just think we pop people in a cell or a suspended sentence and its done when they get out or their time is done. It very much isnt. Those things to me at least are real and make most people suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives.

Some people can rebuild and do but it is hard, and society makes it harder IMO than is healthy. There are some great and enlightened organisations out their like Timpsons/Johnsons the Cleaners who positively employ ex offenders and give people positions of trust and responsibility and I wish there were more of them, as ex offenders often just need that chance. Sadly the likes of the Daily Mail just want offenders to suffer and throw away the key.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I will add finally that I think we put too many people in prison all round. We are not at all creative and we tend to go the American route of punishment - prisons dont rehabilitate at all, or most dont , and that is not good for society.

Anyway Im done - it gets me emotional and that isnt good on a Friday night. Thankfully we are all free to enjoy our weekends.