Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Boris Becker - criminal charges


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 54617
Date:
Boris Becker - criminal charges


No one wishes depression and failure on people.

But there is no reason why your friends/acquaintances who committed financial crimes should be treated any differently from other criminals. I'm sure (in fact, I know) that lots of youngsters incarcerated for minor offences also suffer depression etc.

It is obvious that the penal system has to be reviewed relatively frequently to see if it it serving its purpose.

Scholars tend to think there are five main reasons behind our penal system: incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation and restoration.

Now, you can work through those as far your acquaintances are concerned. Or Boris. Or your violent drug offender. And you can add all the social injustices too (which probably don't apply so much to the two you mention, and certainly don't apply to Boris).

There is a lot to be said for giving the £35k to the young offender, instead of imprisoning him/her.

And seeing if the money is better spent as a present to turn their lives around, rather than spending it locking them up.

This applies far less to Boris, and other financial criminals, as 35k won't make such a difference to his budget (Boris had the audacity to argue that he had an 'expensive' lifestyle and so merited special consideration).

The argument here, again, is not whether the penal system works; it's whether white collar offenders should get special treatment.

And, to be honest, the idea that Becker would be better off doing community service, working with kids etc, when the one thing he does is send the most awful message to kids - lie, steal, cheat, make companies go bust, make people lose their jobs, then don't say sorry, don't show remorse, carry on trying to get away with it - this is a good person to work with kids????



__________________
cya


Strong Club Player

Status: Offline
Posts: 404
Date:

JonH comes home wrote:

I could engage but havent the energy to debate but clearly will disagree with Indy and CD.

Ive said before here, I know two people who got sentenced for financial crimes, no point in going into the details, I dont want them to be identified. One got a suspended sentence , 12 months, the other got 12 months inside. Both had young families. The one with the suspended sentence was mortified, clearly, ashamed. Did 300 hours community service where they identified he could do more than dig holes; he worked with a charity to help them access funds and build a business plan. His employer fired him but another saw he was remorseful and he got a job. He repaid all the money , kept his house and protected his family. He still supports the charity 12 years later working a day a week at no cost, on a Saturday and doing things in the evening. Hes learnt a massive lesson, but put something back in and rebuilt his life.

The other went to prison, lost his house and marriage. He couldnt re pay the money as he didnt have a job. Couldnt get a job after either as no one would touch him. Life fell apart really and he now works at a supermarket and suffers severe depression and anxiety.

Punishment is fine if that is the society we are but I tend to favour trying to get the positive out of someone.


 Boris got a suspended sentence in 2002 . He obviously was not mortified , otherwise he would not have re-offended . 



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40014
Date:

cya wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

I could engage but havent the energy to debate but clearly will disagree with Indy and CD.

Ive said before here, I know two people who got sentenced for financial crimes, no point in going into the details, I dont want them to be identified. One got a suspended sentence , 12 months, the other got 12 months inside. Both had young families. The one with the suspended sentence was mortified, clearly, ashamed. Did 300 hours community service where they identified he could do more than dig holes; he worked with a charity to help them access funds and build a business plan. His employer fired him but another saw he was remorseful and he got a job. He repaid all the money , kept his house and protected his family. He still supports the charity 12 years later working a day a week at no cost, on a Saturday and doing things in the evening. Hes learnt a massive lesson, but put something back in and rebuilt his life.

The other went to prison, lost his house and marriage. He couldnt re pay the money as he didnt have a job. Couldnt get a job after either as no one would touch him. Life fell apart really and he now works at a supermarket and suffers severe depression and anxiety.

Punishment is fine if that is the society we are but I tend to favour trying to get the positive out of someone.


 Boris got a suspended sentence in 2002 . He obviously was not mortified , otherwise he would not have re-offended . 


Fair comment. Not going to argue that. But we still, in general, I feel, jail people too easily.  



__________________


Intermediate Club Player

Status: Offline
Posts: 324
Date:

Boris has got off lightly here. He is far from ruined, he has loads of money hidden away and this will be largely forgotten in a couple of years other than by those he has diddled.
He will spend a few weeks in a proper prison then be moved to an open prison and that is what many people don't realise. I knew of somebody years ago who committed financial fraud, was put in an open prison and carried on with his life as normal in the day, he just had to sleep at the prison over night. Then Boris will be out in a year, 15 months at most, possibly as short as six months if he is on licence. This is a woefully inadequate sentence for multi million pound fraud and does not reflect the severity of the crime, or the lies he told in court. We are so soft in this country, he would not have dared do this in China for example. He could have got four years for this, he has dodged a bullet here and will be cracking open the champaign in a few weeks time.
Just to pick up on CD's point that people should not be jailed for drug offences. Drugs and violence are interlinked, the two go together. Thousands of people are killed every year in the drugs supply chain so middle and upper class people can enjoy their selfish habit with no regard for the consequences it causes. He and those like him will no doubt trot out the tired legalisation line which would just bring more drug producers and dealers into the market therefore upping the violence.

I used to admire Boris, I hope we never see him on the TV again.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40014
Date:

Mark1968 wrote:

Boris has got off lightly here. He is far from ruined, he has loads of money hidden away and this will be largely forgotten in a couple of years other than by those he has diddled.
He will spend a few weeks in a proper prison then be moved to an open prison and that is what many people don't realise. I knew of somebody years ago who committed financial fraud, was put in an open prison and carried on with his life as normal in the day, he just had to sleep at the prison over night. Then Boris will be out in a year, 15 months at most, possibly as short as six months if he is on licence. This is a woefully inadequate sentence for multi million pound fraud and does not reflect the severity of the crime, or the lies he told in court. We are so soft in this country, he would not have dared do this in China for example. He could have got four years for this, he has dodged a bullet here and will be cracking open the champaign in a few weeks time.
Just to pick up on CD's point that people should not be jailed for drug offences. Drugs and violence are interlinked, the two go together. Thousands of people are killed every year in the drugs supply chain so middle and upper class people can enjoy their selfish habit with no regard for the consequences it causes. He and those like him will no doubt trot out the tired legalisation line which would just bring more drug producers and dealers into the market therefore upping the violence.

I used to admire Boris, I hope we never see him on the TV again.

 



-- Edited by JonH comes home on Saturday 30th of April 2022 10:03:31 AM

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 54617
Date:

Mark1968 wrote:

Boris has got off lightly here. He is far from ruined, he has loads of money hidden away and this will be largely forgotten in a couple of years other than by those he has diddled.
He will spend a few weeks in a proper prison then be moved to an open prison and that is what many people don't realise. I knew of somebody years ago who committed financial fraud, was put in an open prison and carried on with his life as normal in the day, he just had to sleep at the prison over night. Then Boris will be out in a year, 15 months at most, possibly as short as six months if he is on licence. This is a woefully inadequate sentence for multi million pound fraud and does not reflect the severity of the crime, or the lies he told in court. We are so soft in this country, he would not have dared do this in China for example. He could have got four years for this, he has dodged a bullet here and will be cracking open the champaign in a few weeks time.
Just to pick up on CD's point that people should not be jailed for drug offences. Drugs and violence are interlinked, the two go together. Thousands of people are killed every year in the drugs supply chain so middle and upper class people can enjoy their selfish habit with no regard for the consequences it causes. He and those like him will no doubt trot out the tired legalisation line which would just bring more drug producers and dealers into the market therefore upping the violence.

I used to admire Boris, I hope we never see him on the TV again.


 I happen to agree with a lot of what you say, Mark - BUT i never said that. In fact, I'd like to see where you got that from - maybe I'm wrong - maybe I said something that sounded like that somewhere - but, IMO, it shows me that you might not be reading what I said/others say/the news says properly. 

My point was about comparative sentencing and effectiveness.

I said Boris most definitely deserved to go to jail BECAUSE we jail minor/major drug offenders and violent offenders, and that his crime is definitely as serious. 

I also said it would be interesting to give the £35k it costs us to keep someone in jail for a year, to the drug violent guy. Because we know that prison doesn't work. Would the money actually be better spent just as a present? (Now, there's lots of flaws with this, it's not a 'practical' suggestion, it's just a putting it out there)

However, I agree with you smile 

I also know several 'financial criminals' who have done perfectly nicely after jail. Way too nicely, in my opinion. (Which is not to say they all do, but it's why one shouldn't use one-off examples - Jon knows a couple with one sort of result, although only one is really in a bad way, you and I know a couple with another sort).

My suggestion has been that the financial penalties are not strict enough - I know one guy who went to jail for 6 months - he was perfectly happy about that. The only thing he cared about was that his money was still waiting when he got out. And, basically, it was. Take away his money and he'd have really had something to worry about. He said so, quite openly. 

I agree, Mark. Boris will obviously have managed to hide certain assets - after all, that's precisely what he's been found guilty of, so it is inconceivable that the authorities have tied down ALL the assets he's hidden, it's what he does, what he's good at, as shown over the years. And that's even assuming that they have the jurisdiction to touch all the assets. 

I wrote to the BBC several years ago, after the African immunity debacle, saying I'd never watch BBC tennis again while he was on air, and I haven't. He's just a thief. And an unrepentant one. It's not a hanging offence, and he can 'redeem' himself, but it's hardly someone you want to parade in front of kids and pay taxpayer money to.   



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40014
Date:

Putting aside emotions and the like - are you sure Boris is good at hiding his assets? Strikes me he is actually pretty rubbish at it!

And Im sure that anything hes got hidden away now could easily be found, its not that difficult if we had a desire to do it.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 54617
Date:

JonH comes home wrote:

Putting aside emotions and the like - are you sure Boris is good at hiding his assets? Strikes me he is actually pretty rubbish at it!

And Im sure that anything hes got hidden away now could easily be found, its not that difficult if we had a desire to do it.


 Er, he's been doing it since way before 2002 and it's only finally properly caught up with him ? I would say that shows he's pretty good at it (not the best, I grant you, but pretty good)

And, no, it's not easy to find them all and then to get jurisdiction over them, not at all. 



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40014
Date:

Coup Droit wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

Putting aside emotions and the like - are you sure Boris is good at hiding his assets? Strikes me he is actually pretty rubbish at it!

And Im sure that anything hes got hidden away now could easily be found, its not that difficult if we had a desire to do it.


 Er, he's been doing it since way before 2002 and it's only finally properly caught up with him ? I would say that shows he's pretty good at it (not the best, I grant you, but pretty good)

And, no, it's not easy to find them all and then to get jurisdiction over them, not at all. 


 Clearly CD you Know a lot more than me on this whole subject so I will bow out . Its cool. 



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 54617
Date:

JonH comes home wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

Putting aside emotions and the like - are you sure Boris is good at hiding his assets? Strikes me he is actually pretty rubbish at it!

And Im sure that anything hes got hidden away now could easily be found, its not that difficult if we had a desire to do it.


 Er, he's been doing it since way before 2002 and it's only finally properly caught up with him ? I would say that shows he's pretty good at it (not the best, I grant you, but pretty good)

And, no, it's not easy to find them all and then to get jurisdiction over them, not at all. 


 Clearly CD you Know a lot more than me on this whole subject so I will bow out . Its cool. 


 That's not the take-away, Jon smile

But, yes, maybe we'll put Becker on simmer for a while smile



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40383
Date:

Been some very interesting discussions re jailing different strata of society and the other options available and thanks for all the thoughts and info. And I don't necessarily disagree with Jon that we jail too many folk

I just continue to think that Becker, with his litany of offences, is no example at all of someone for whom another option to taking away his liberty was acceptable.

And indeed, as CD and Mark have said, in no doubt practice, he has got off very lightly.

He will probably suffer knock-on effects in the future to his potential career and earnings and that will not be inappropriate and be very much his own fault.



__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 54617
Date:

An excellent comment, I thought, from Andy:

'I didn't really feel particularly emotional about it,' said Murray when asked about his reaction to the news [about Becker being jailed].

'He broke the law and if you do that, I don't think you should get special treatment because of who you are or what you've achieved. Again, I feel sorry that he's in that situation, but I also feel sorry for the people that he's affected with his decisions as well and what's happened to them.

'I hope he's OK and that he learns from his mistakes. But I didn't have a particular emotion about it.'

(from the Daily Mail)

__________________


Satellite level

Status: Offline
Posts: 1461
Date:

Becker film will be deeply intimate :
A film length documentary is being made about Boris  y Oscar winning film directors Gibney and Battsek. Hope any associated profit goes to paying off his unpaid debts. 


https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/broadcasting/boris-becker-film-close-to-completion/5170288.article



__________________


Satellite level

Status: Offline
Posts: 1485
Date:

Given the reaction to Lester Piggott's death who spent time in prison for a similar offence I suspect Boris may be rehabilitated sooner than people think.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 40014
Date:

Boris was released from prison today; looks like he will be deported as soon as possible.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/63987543


__________________
«First  <  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8  >  Last»  | Page of 8  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard